The Sausage Factory

Matt: Welcome to the Sausage Factory, sponsored by Rocky, the Content Feedback Platform. This is our regular look at the world of content marketing. So we're going to be celebrating the good and shining a light on what could be better with the single aim of encouraging the world to make better content. And we try and do that in 30 minutes sausages for you every single month. So some introductions. I'm Matt Lab and I'm the founder of Rocky.
Mark: And I'm Mark Willis, writer and resident sausage psychologist.
Matt: So in this episode, we're going to be looking back at what we thought AI would mean for content marketing, and then find out how it really started to pan out with a side dish of content design chat. So to help us on the way, we are joined in the factory today by Glen Sturgis, director of Copy at Write This Way. So, Glen has spent three decades working and writing for [00:01:00] brands, organizations, and agencies. Highlights include working lots of big tech and automotive brands at Wunderman, winning B two B agents of the year twice while at D N X, managing a crack team of copywriters. As head of copy at Ogilvy Business. After that, he led a team of content designers at BT and EE before starting his own business with Write This Way. What Glen doesn't know about B two B copy and content isn't worth knowing. Husband, father of two boys, former keen cyclist, and now a complete golf obsessive as well as compulsive tea drinker Glen Sturgis is here. Welcome to the Sausage Factory, Glen, how are you?
Track 1: thank you for a lovely, uh, intro and very warm welcome. Yeah, I'm very well indeed. Thank you. All things considered. And it's great to be here. Thanks for the opportunity to spout some, hopefully words of wisdom about content and copy and all kinds of things. And I've got some props and I've got some, hopefully some sensible [00:02:00] answers for you. Although your questions frankly aren't that sensible, from what I've seen,
Mark: Well, well, we're gonna start, really sensible. So before we get to the blend, which is the section where we talk to our content marketing celebrity, that's, that's you, about your journey and what makes good content. We have the part of the show that lives on a knife edge. Will it be canceled? Will it be picked up by a major television channel and hosted by daytime television stalwart?
Nick Knowles. Who knows. It is of course the sausage quiz where we ask very successful people in marketing very sensible questions about sausages. As regular listeners will know, it's a three-part quiz that looks deep into the soul of our guest and ignores all the interesting psychological, stuff to reveal their preferences on sausages.
Glen, without further ado, what's your favorite type of sausage?
Track 1: Well, I've spent a disproportionately long period. Of time researching this part of the, the, the [00:03:00] book. I've got some, some decent answers for you. So look, it's a difficult question. What's your favorite type of sausage? I like all kinds of sausage, if I'm honest.
But for versatility I think I'm gonna go Iberian,
um, and I'm gonna go for Chori. So that's Toho not as 99% of people I've ever met. Call it chorizo or rizo. Um, it's a Spanish word and we shouldn't bastardize it, I don't think anyway, be my choice. Um, it's great on its own. And it's, it's great when you add it to other stuff. So it's, it's got a really long shelf life. Like you can leave it out on the side for a week and it's still fine. You can eat it hot or cold, it comes in lots of different varieties. Um, and it comes with a handy piece of string. Which if you buy lots of them, you could join them up and have a longer piece of string. Um, so, uh, yeah, there's lots to be said for Chori. Toho. So that would be my, my favorite type of sausage. I did [00:04:00] ask my wife this question and she said, should you really be asking that question if you have a woman, uh, on the, but that's not going down that road.
Mark: You have something in common with Matt Labour then, because I believe that was your favorite type of sausage as well, Matt
Matt: I, I definitely used the wrong, uh,
pronunciation because I the Essex in me came out and I was like, Yeah, must try harder.
Mark: Okay. Well, let's, let's see if there are any commonalities, um, in the answer to the next question, which is favorite sausage based dish.
Track 1: Code in the hole. I mean, every time, especially with autumn, I mean, it is just the autumnal. But very specifically, I mean, after years of, of making them and never quite getting the batter right. We've now found that m and s do a, like a a pre-made one and it has to be m and Ss specifically. It has to be m s 'cause we tried the others.[00:05:00] It's just brilliant. It's great. It's a great meal. We don't waste any food. It's probably cheaper than doing it yourself. So yeah, towing the whole all the way.
Mark: Big fan of Toad in the hole. Good answer. So the most, controversial of our three questions preferred, meat to non-meat percentage, preferred meat percentage. Let's just focus on the positives.
Track 1: I mean, again, I'm, I'm gonna sit on the fence a bit. I don't really have a preference. I, I did notice in a previous, I think it was James, uh, the much aligned, um, pork sausages in baked beans, which has become a bit of a, a lunchtime staple in the Sturgis household. This, the answer to this question, it's entirely mood based and non elitist to my answer. Um, so like you take these, they're actually, there's actually about 10% of pork in that whole tin. So the sausage content is 17%, but actually of that, only 62% is pork. Yeah, that's correct. Um, so overall [00:06:00] that makes about 10%. But God, if it hits the spot, who's, who's to argue? I. And I'm also with Jess Cranden.
I think he was one of your fantastic earlier guests. , and she was talking about zero meat content, you know, and, and I do make a quite a mean meat-free sausage plat, I have to say. Yeah. It's, it's all down to context. Like, like, like a lot of things. It's all down to content. Context
never say never. When it comes to, to meat percentages.
Mark: There, there's a soundbite for us anyway.
Matt: It sounds like a really bad bomb film.
Track 1: Don't worry.
Matt: Wow. Thank you very much. That's, um, I tell you what I, it got, it's got me thinking we're gonna get a montage of all of these together now. Um, [00:07:00] so I'm forward to seeing these as like basically what a single episode of discussion, so now we've got that vital part of the discussion out of the way. Let's, uh, let's get into content. So you've had a long vari career across content and copy. So what have been, um, the biggest changes you've seen in that time and, uh, as those changes have happened, what is your, you know, how's your relationship evolved in that space as well?
Track 1: I think it's your previous guests of all. Ended up saying probably a lot more eloquently than me, it always comes back to the reader or the user, or the audience or however you want to turn them. You know, if you start there, you can't really go wrong. And I don't think that's changed that much despite all the technological advances and the different ways of thinking about how we create. Content or copy or the stuff that people consume. You know, and it, in the B2B world that I've operated in for the last 15 or so years, [00:08:00] you know, it's about the buyer and knowing where that buyer is on their journey. If you get that right, then hopefully, you know, the rest of it should flow from that. Because we often forget in our bubble of an industry that we work in, that the people out there us as well, 'cause we are out there, don't really care about advertising or marketing. They really, it, you know, we are interrupting their day. And, people these days, Probably one of the changes. People these days, the portcullis comes down pretty quick. If people feel that they're being sold to or marketed to. And honestly, you, you can believe the disparaging looks I get from people when I tell them what I do for a living. And I'll just say, oh, I can advertise on marketing. I might as well tell him I'm estate agent. Um, but that ultimately that's what we do.
It's salesmanship, right? Or sales personship, in print form or in copy form. So you know that that element of, of selling what we do is, is, is really important [00:09:00] and that hasn't changed. The set these days is much, much broader and. Always impressed by, by some of the young good generation of, of copywriters and content people coming through with the amount of, of, of skills, especially in the digital world, that they've, they've got, you know, I come from an anthropology background, that's what I studied at uni, and that's been really useful for understanding people and understanding motivations and the psychology behind decisions and all of that stuff. But now I think, The broader your skillset, the better. If you are, if you're thinking of making a, a career in content, whatever that is, not limited to words or come back to that later, then yeah, never stop learning. There's so much learning out there on the interweb net that, you, you've got notes, excuse not to, And then, you know, the last thing I'd say really is, is in terms of me personally, how I've changed is I've got much better at creating content because I now understand the process involved [00:10:00] much better. And at first I had really had no idea what I was doing. It was, I remember a creative director. Describing me as Glen's an intuitive writer, , which was very kind actually. Uh, and I quite like that label, but, I like to feel I'm more informed now as a writer. So intuitive. It sounds a bit guesswork. Whereas informed, you know, you're taking insights from data, from qualitative and quantitative feedback. You've just got a deeper understanding of the buyer, the reader, the user, and. Like I said, there's no excuse not to these days because everything we do is trackable and where it should be. Sorry, the last thing I want to say is I've definitely got grumpier. That won't be a surprise. There's just no excuse for shit content these days. I'm really intolerant of, of bad user journeys on websites. Or content that doesn't even do the basics, like have a clear call to action or help me get a very simple, specific job done, [00:11:00] and we're all Filling out forms online much more these days, whether it's a checkout form or whatever. You know, even for the smallest thing, if you want to get some content, sometimes you have to fill out a form. And lazy coding jumps you around forms or, or poor UX copy where you're not supposed, you don't understand what. You're supposed to do next. Uh, just really grinds my easily grind all gearbox. so yeah. , there will be grumpy moments this morning. I do.
Mark: Uh, well, I wonder if, I wonder if we can try and provoke a, a grumpy moment. I suspect not actually, because, , one of the things that we wanted to talk to you about was, was ai, obviously the topic that's everywhere, but you were talking about it. , well, back in 2017, you gave a great talk at, copy Cabana.
The talk was the robots are coming. I think we can safely say the robots are here. How are you feeling about the robots? In particular, they're kind of, I think meteoric rise [00:12:00] over the last year or two in particular.
Track 1: Yeah, I think we made, I, I mean I did that talk with, with Pete Steven, , it's probably one of the loveliest copywriters I've ever worked with. It was a double act and uh, yeah, it was an event run by Vicki Ross. If people out there not following Vicki Ross, you bloody well should
be. I think we made a 20 year prediction back then. That's now looking extremely optimistic. Like you, what you said that what's happened in the last year or so. I mean, our whole argument back then was embrace the tools, ignore AI at your peril. And then we had the obligatory Rory Sutherland quote, 'cause we were working at Ogilvy at that point about using ai. Not thinking about it as, as artificial intelligence, but augmented intelligence, like how can it help us? How can
we use that as a tool? You know, humans doing their thing and machines doing what they do best. Chat, D p t, God, there's so much hype about it, which, which I find annoying. Mainly [00:13:00] 'cause sometimes you can't even get on it. I mean, it's good for some stuff. I use it early in a project. As a research assistant. I, I use it to filter ideas to, to just run things by it. A bit of lateral thinking. But the trouble with it is, is less the input side, it's more the output side. I, it spits out what I think, this is not my term, but somebody's, called hot garbage. So it's impressively quick. It can pro provide detailed definitions and help you get your head around a topic, which is something that I have to do a lot in B two B world. 'cause I don't, uh, know everything surprisingly enough. Once you start to examine what it, the output, what it produces, it very quickly falls apart if. And, you know, and by any self-respecting copywriters standards, it also can't follow simple rules. It like forgets things that you've told it and, and then it's really apologetic when it's, when you point them out, it's like, don't apologize, just fucking get it right. You're [00:14:00] robot, you're supposed to make my life easier. Get stuff, you tell it bizarrely, but it also just blatantly makes things up. Which is really not helpful. I'm gradually learning and it is getting better as well. That's the other thing I've, I've sort of noticed when I use a word, it understands the context of that word a little bit more.
When I direct it or prompt it in a certain way, it's more attuned to me, which is a bit sort of scary, but big, big brother. But that's the whole point, right? I suspect it's already putting some kind of lazy copywriters who are quite happy creating dull content, out of work.
The consequence of this is, is, is a lot of, there's a lot more content being added to the digital landfill that's already out there. Yeah, I mean, it's meteoric, it's last year. I'd be interested to know if they're actually making a profit, yeah, there's a long way to go with it.
Matt: it.
It's been interesting because, If you actually look at some of the stats around chat g p t, it had this incredible [00:15:00] peak, this hit this mountain high, probably about six months ago. It was, it was just after the start of the year, I guess, wasn't it? but the stats were incredible. Then I think everyone signed up. But, um, I saw some data recently. I'll make sure I share this, with our listeners afterwards as well. But like, usage of chat GPTs, like it's sort of downward curve, like the, it's gone past the hype train, the gold rush, so to speak. There's a few implications there. 'cause I think a lot of people, like a lot of, other applications have incorporated chat. Bts, it's in Canva, it's in Microsoft Suite. It's in like, it's kind of weasel its way into every part of our lives. I don't think I'd say that meas, that's probably, uh, slightly harsh, but it does ha it does have good use cases. What you said there was really interesting, we've said this so many times, there's an abundance of bad content now out there.
We've had previous guest talk about it, like SERP result pages. It's just, absolute clap trap of just the same repeated regurgitated. Here's the information you asked for. Here it is back to you, which is losing that creativity and [00:16:00] excitement that The readers get and people know it, they can detect it and they kind of move away. I keep going back to it. It feels like a, like what's this 5% that you can do that's different, that makes you stand out when everyone looks the same? I'm gonna go into like a riff there from a song, but like everybody looked the same with kind of look at each other.
But what, what's that 5% that other copywriters can do? And how have your predictions changed over, over the last five or six years since you first spoke about it?
Track 1: I think it depends where you are in your career. If you are just starting out and thinking, right, I'm gonna make a career in content and copy. Good luck to you. 'cause I, seriously consider a. Career change because I think this stuff is, is so good now that I remember a, a, a creative director saying, saying to me, it was probably the one who called my content or my copywriting style intuitive. , but he said, yeah, you, your copy, the copy you produced. And this is very early in my copywriting career, right. I still hadn't got a clue what I was doing. , [00:17:00] and he was like, on a functional level. Your copy is great. It's, it's valuable stuff. It's informative, but it lacks a, what he called a free song. just that moment, that memorable moment in a piece of copy. I mean, you can push it too far, obviously. In fact, I've just had a brief today, which is, oh, can you bring a Halloween feel to it?
Matt: I, I, please share with me this piece of.
Track 1: Lemme just ground you for a second. It's a webinar about expenses paid and management. Anyway, it could be a choice of word or a different way of expressing something. It's just something that lifts that off. Page, and I think humans copywriters, content marketers copy, you can still do that using your own brain, your own experiences, your own take on things, you know, but it does require some homework and some effort on your part.
You do have to, [00:18:00] what used to be called interrogate the brief. You do have to get to an understanding of what you're trying to communicate. That's deeper. Than most of the other people who've either thought about the brief or who work in the agency or whatever. You know, there, there aren't really any shortcuts still. You know, once you've boiled something down to the real nub of the, the point that you want to get across, then find a way of saying that in an interesting way and, I don't think machines can do that yet. I think it's, we, we still hold the cards on that front, which is great, , at the moment. My advice is, is, you know, I mean for fo farts like me, you know, the craft side of the job is still really important. So if you're just coming into the industry, Or, or you're in the foothills of your career. Just keep learning and keep, you know less guesswork and more homework really would, would be my, my approach.
Mark: I was gonna ask you about where you, where you think humans still have the edge, and I think you've, you've kind of already [00:19:00] answered that in a way, but I was thinking back to that the robots are coming, presentation as well, and. The, like, I think it, it almost sounds like we're saying the machine can almost do some of the logical stuff for us, but some of the kind of, I'm gonna, it's probably a really bad way to describe it, but the more magical stuff, the stuff that as you are saying, kind of makes somebody actually want to read it in the first place.
Like that's still the bit that that AI struggles with or can't do. And back.
That you do, do you think that's kind of the emotional, the magical side of copywriting is, is still gonna be our edge for the foreseeable future?
Track 1: Completely. Last time I looked, my brain hadn't changed a huge much. AI might have moved on a bit, but my, my brain still does it's good at. Robots are brilliant for data analysis, for translation language, natural language understanding. [00:20:00] You know what Chat, G T P G P T spits out is an amalgamation. Of, of, of all, of, of, of our knowledge. But that's all it is really. They're good at averages, right? Um, percentage play, so they can automate stuff. They can, they don't get tired and grumpy and they don't eat constantly refilling the tea, coffee like me. And information retrieval, that kind of stuff.
Pulling up facts and explanations instantly. Amazing. Brilliant. Well done Robots. Humans, we've still got the upper hand because the, the, the greatest machine still on this planet is the one between our ears. How many times you know how to brief where we need to create some emotion around this, you know?
And so that emotional intelligence that we've got, understanding emotions, motivating people to do, think, feel something that that is our bag, right? Creative thinking, [00:21:00] you know, lateral thinking, all that kind of stuff. We're still, we are the true creators really when it comes to ideas and art and stories, you know, we can do that. We might not practice it as much as we should, but we can do it. and decision making stuff that requires judgment, you know, something moral, moral or ethical, or perhaps a longer term consideration. you know, machines can't grasp that. They, they don't have that nuance pattern wherever that is in the brain. and we also very adaptable. Humans could adapt and unexpected things pop up situations. You know, we, we, robots can't predict that. I'm not sure we can predict it so much, but I think we're certainly more adaptable in the moment. so yeah. And then there's a whole bunch of things that, that, you know, outside of our world that I, I, you know, we, I suppose the dream with machines, isn't it, that they're gonna be doing all the menial tasks that we don't, we can't be asked to do.
but then they're still way behind us in terms of things like [00:22:00] dexterity and mobility and flex flexibility. I mean, I know, you know, they're, they're really good at those repetitive tasks, but, you know, I think it'd be a long time before there's a robot wandering around my house doing all that and I'm, can you wash that up?
Can you do this thing? You know, well, they're definitely here, right? For, for the long term. And I know the other thing, the backlash over the last year has been, you know, a lot of very important people going, well, we're getting a little bit far down this path without understanding the implications.
Whether the rabbit's out the hat really, , I don't dunno yet. We'll find out.
Matt: We will. That's fantastic. Thank you so much. There's some, real food for thought there. I'm just gonna change ts slightly 'cause
there's a big part of this, this is a personal preference of mine, is to pick your brains on, on content design. So in, in some of your previous roles, you've, you've gone about that for some, some really big tech companies. What is content design? I think everyone has a slightly different [00:23:00] definition.
Track 1: It's almost a contradiction in terms like content design. I don't, right. I can hear them everywhere going, I don't do design. Let's start with the definition. The person, Sarah Richards, who, who has kind of defined content designing, worked on a lot of the Gov UK sites and everyone should buy this book, by the way, from Content Design, London 10 99.
It's a good book. Her definition of it is it's don't limit yourself to words. Yeah. Content designs means not limiting yourself to just words. And that's the whole point. So, you know, when a, when a copywriter might ask, uh, well, how should I write this? A content designer would, would think, What content will best meet the need? And that's the difference really I think between, , content design and copywriting. There's another really good book, which I, ' cause it was totally a crash course when I joined BT and ee, we had a team of 200 content designers. I mean, we were producing [00:24:00] content
Matt: Wow.
Track 1: apps and websites at scale and quite With lots and lots of constraints. Um, so I, threw myself into understanding what this was by reading lots. This was another really good book content strategy by Christina Hal Sson and Melissa Rack. and they use this really lovely analogy in here, the difference between, content and copywriting. So I'm just gonna read it. So when people think about the content development process, they they think about it like baking a cake, getting the ingredients, gathering source content, stirring them up, compiling, writing, editing, cooking it, finalizing and approving, then frosting it. Adding it to the design, which I thought I was quite a neat way of, of talking about what I do most of the time, which is these days, which is copywriting. And then she goes on to say, this is exactly the kind of thinking that leads to a length, hour content, catastrophes, Because in reality, doing the content is a whole lot [00:25:00] more like running a bakery. There are countless details to consider. You have to manage people. That in itself is kind of enough, isn't it? Equipment is expensive and it breaks, and you get, you might get the recipes wrong. You might sign, start losing money. You get, you know, you get the picture right. It's one thing can be done in your own head a little bit, you know, the making of the cake. but when it comes to content design at scale, you know, Genuinely trying to solve user needs with a, an online experience. It, it's a team sport. It requires lots of different skillset and things need to be done. A methodology according and in the right order as well. So you don't start writing until way down the process. When you've done your research, your testing, you've made sure you understand the user needs. You create maybe a minimum viable product. It's this failing fast kind of, of mentality. At [00:26:00] BT we had this build measure, learn. So, you know, we'd, we wouldn't faff about too much. We'd get something made, then we'd measure it, and then we'd learn from it and iterate and iterate and iterate. it's some ways they're very close content design and copywriting, but in other ways they're miles apart, in terms of the, the different skill sets that are required. that's a very, very top line kind of of view of how, how those two things are different. I'm not sure I answered the question there. Content design is a, is a process and a methodology more than, more than anything. And you certainly couldn't get away with being an intuitive copywriter and being, being good at the content design, it requires a lot more discipline.
Mark: Obviously from a rocky perspective as well, being a content feedback platform, like the role of feedback in, um, content design is quite interesting when you are failing fast and building, measuring learning. I mean, can you tell us a little bit more about the role that testing and feedback play in content [00:27:00] design?
, what it kind of meant for you on a, on a day-to-day basis?
Track 1: Before I answer that, I'm just going to, there's an Ogilvy quote, and I'm probably gonna misquote him, but, you know, he's always misquoted, but he, he talks about target audience is not a standing army, but a moving parade. And this is the thing with content design, nothing's ever completely done. , and as I said before, people don't really care about the advertising or marketing. The approach should be that nothing ever is completely perfect or a hundred percent done. So testing is just ongoing. It's, it's part of what you do, it's part of the process of creating content. And once you've published that content, learning from it, learning what's working, what isn't. I often, I've often found, Me included copywriters and content. People talk a good game on this front, but when it comes to actually doing it, yeah, I mean, how many briefs have you seen where, again, the one I had this morning, it was like, well, we've [00:28:00] just done a webinar. What was some of the feedback from the previous one, either from the presenters, from the , that learning approach and understanding what worked before and what might not work in the future is, is often missing, but that's the secret source a lot of the time.
Mark: So, I mean, the, the content design stuff is, is fascinating, but unfortunately we've got to pause for a, a commercial message from one from our esteemed sponsors. It's otherwise known as the outlet for Matt's frustrated theatrical career. Um, so let's take, take a break,
[00:29:00] [00:30:00]
Matt: So now it's time for Matt's bangers. This is the section of the show where we showcase a piece of content. That we absolutely love and that our guest loves. so Glen, over to you. What have you got for us?[00:31:00]
Track 1: well, you know, I thought about the audience. I was thinking Sausage Factory, who's gonna be watching this? And its copywriters and its content creators. And its content marketers. Am I wrong?
So let's have a piece of content that's gonna be helpful. And honestly, I read a lot of self-help books, as you can tell. Uh, and this one, which is Dan Kin's book, which was eight years in the Making a Self-Help Guide for Copyright. Ah, there we go. One of the most helpful ways of. It's so many.
Oh, aha. That's what I do. That's what my brain does when I'm doing this thing. I don't know Dan, although I've, you know, I'm hooked up with him on LinkedIn and all of that and he's brilliant, but I thought I'd get in touch, because I, I was really, uh, keen to understand why he wrote the book. what effect essentially was the user need he was addressing right back to that. And God, it is, it is just a fab book. It's such a joy to read as I'm, I'm sure Mark will attest.[00:32:00] It's full of tips. It's full of nudges, it's full of encouragement when you're kind of facing a blank page or, or, or up against a brick wall with either the craft or the process. And just his love of words and creativity just comes across on every page. So anyway, I buttered Dan up, here's what he said about why he wrote the book. So one. I needed help. . It's why it's called a self-help guide for copywriters. When we wing the creative process, we have no idea how we do what we do. To quote Jason Bagley, who's the Old Spice kind of creative director, I felt like a magician who didn't know the secret to his own tricks. And each new assignment was like being pushed onto stage to put another rabbit out of the hat. But I didn't have a hat. I didn't know where the rabbit was and whether it would be an eel or a hamburger or a shovel or nothing at all. It was a terrifying feeling to be responsible for an outcome I didn't feel I had any control over. That's who I felt, and it's why I wrote the book. It was my attempt to learn my [00:33:00] own tricks and new ones. So that's good enough. Reason is given another one. Two. I needed to create something just for me. Not for a brand, not for an agency, just for me. And if you're a creative at any level, I encourage you to do the same. But maybe don't write a book. People don't read anymore except for I just buy it. I mean, it is full of examples of ads if I've missed the point of this segment, which was here's some lovely content that somebody's created. I've given you a book that's got millions of examples in there anyway, he's just a lovely person to follow 'cause he's always just so positive and, and loves what he does, which is infectious, I find. Um, so yeah, that, that's my Matt's banger.
Mark: So I, yeah, I absolutely concur with, with that. It's a fantastic book and I love the fact, Glen, that there's kind of a thread to this podcast because it starts with, that that feedback that you got [00:34:00] from the creative director about being an intuitive writer, and I think that's one of.
Book does is it helps you go from being intuitive to being, as you said at the start informed, like you understand. Copywriting is still scary, but it's a lot less scary when you know, you understand what you're doing and you understand the process and the different, you know, spells that you go through during the creative process.
Speaking of scary things, Sausage of death. For every Matts banger we have to have a sausage of death. And just a quick reminder of where this comes from, where we think it comes from. Anyway, I mean, we haven't really done our due diligence on this phrase, and I'm worried now that Glen, you have, and you found out that it doesn't mean what I think it means, but Danish lang for something that's really boring is Dens Pulsar or Sausage of death.
And that's, that's our uplifting way of, of finishing the show by, um, Awarding one. Awfully dull [00:35:00] or poorly written, uh, or unsuccessful piece of content. Uh, the Dens Pulser title. So, Glen, you have a sausage of death for us.
Track 1: I do, and it's a lesson for all those brands out there. Beware the spurned copywriter. This, this, you might have heard of this brand, it's called Rossignol. They're French. They make, they, they make ski equipment and mountain equipment, that kind of stuff. and as I used to be in, they also make mountain bikes weirdly, as I used to be into mountain biking. I kind of, they've been on my radar for a bit and I got in touch with them via a friend and just tried to offer my help because their email marketing is abysmal. I mean, they probably make loads of money on it every time. Like a lot of these companies, they send out shit emails and, and people buy stuff. I mean, it's incredible, given the quality of some of their that. I'm now on their mailing list honestly, every email I get from them is a joy for all the wrong reasons. from typos to, to sort of wordy, meaningless drl content, [00:36:00] to copy that. It takes 50 words to say what you could have said in two words. that looks like it's been through a Google Translate at some point, and then translate it back into the original language and then, oh, fuck it. Let's translate it again. I mean, it's that or the copy. I mean, the one recent one that I'd highlight, I mean, first of all it was talking about clients and I think they meant
customers. My language is you the person reading this anyway. It's all about you sending in your photos, of , you wearing our products. But honestly it's just such a convoluted way and I honestly, you read two paragraphs. You don't know if you are the customer who. I mean, fuck me. It's lost it's way down. It's just, and so, yeah, and I'm sorry Ross, but you really should have employed me
Mark: It's not too
late Ross. [00:37:00]
Track 1: it's too late. Consistently ghosted. , so yeah, Ross.
Matt: Wow. I I love that. It's obviously a B two C brand, selling some nice, you know, consumer wear and things like that. And I love, they're using what is essentially B two B language, which is very personal. Dear client
Track 1: It. Honestly, it's every ev I just sign up to their email list. I mean, they'll be overjoyed, they'll be over. Um, it's just, it's just great. It's just like some, there's always some gift in the email where you kind of read the line and go, oh. Christ alive. Why have they said it like that? Or, or, you know, just, yeah. So it is in a weird kind of way, I'm reveling in the, the, the sausage of death.
Matt: That's what it's there for. We've all got our bug bears and brands that, uh, don't quite behave the way we want 'em to. So, Glen, thank you so much. That [00:38:00] brings us to the end of the episode, but before we say goodbye, where can people find out more about you and about right this way?
Track 1: does what it says on the tin, write its way.co uk. You can fill out a content form if you want to get in touch. I'm not gonna give you the hard sell at this point if you've got B two B kind of. Stuff. I'm, I'm your man, I suppose. Yeah, to find me on LinkedIn as well. , there's not many.
Glen Sturgiss is out there. In fact, the only one that I've ever come across is the one who's in the , sitcom that sit in the supermarket. It was the manager of the sitcom.
That's Glen Sturgiss. Yeah.
Matt: Yes. I didn't think about that.
That's a, that's a really underrated show as well.
Track 1: I mean, yeah, his character is just,
Matt: Did, did Your Heart, when you see that character development behind,
Track 1: that was one of my team, one of my team over when the first show, first, God, it must have been back five, six years ago now, but said, oh my God, do you realize there's a Glen Sturgis on [00:39:00] a. Who's, who's a rotund, um, supermarket manager in the states. A, a complete buffoon. I mean, so there are some similarities, so,
Matt: For our listeners, don't, do not get those two mixed up. This isn't Glen Sturges from the supermarket show. That's amazing. So, right, let's get this sausage, uh, wrapped up, get it packed, and get it back onto the shelves. So in future shows, we're gonna continue to dissect what truly great content looks like with a number of guest experts. So if you enjoyed what we do and you want to get in touch, we'd love to hear from you. Uh, contributions to Matt's bangers or conversely, the dreaded sausage of death are always welcome. You can find us on Twitter or x or whatever Elon decides to call it this or next week. , you can find Rocky on LinkedIn or visit our website@rocky.io. Until then, that is all from the Sausage Factory. Thank you so much to Glen for being on the show. We are gonna make sure all those links, recommendations, books, and other bits and pieces, all included [00:40:00] in the show notes for you. So Go and take a look at those. Thank you so much for listening and do not forget to give us your feedback.